DAKAR, Senegal — Since taking the helm of the African Union, Macky Sall, who is also the president of the West African nation of Senegal, has argued that Africa does not have the influence it guarantees in matters. world topic.
He told the United Nations General Assembly in September that Africa remained “limited to the margins”.
But as he prepares to make his stance again at the US-Africa Leaders Summit in Washington this week, it seems at least part of his message has been heard: One White House officials said President Biden would favor a permanent position on the African Union’s Group of 20 major economies.
In the presidential palace in Dakar last Thursday, surrounded by paintings and sculptures of Senegal’s national symbol, the lion – as well as what looks like a real stuffed lioness – President Sall presented what Africa hopes to gain from the summit.
(This conversation has been edited and condensed for clarity.)
Tell me your vision for a new international order in which Africa is no longer an outsider.
This is a huge continent, with 1.4 billion people and a GDP of $2.7 trillion. But Africa remains at the periphery. As we decide the fate of the world, there must be more room for Africa. At the G20. At the United Nations Security Council.
We need to strengthen Africa’s relationship with the rest of the world, especially with the developed countries. Developed and developing countries need more communication. That’s my fight. We must be part of the solutions, not just a topic, a topic of discussion.
And is the G20 ready to give up its seat to the African Union? Is the UN ready to give Africa a permanent seat on the Security Council?
As for the G20, I think it’s on the right track. We already have substantial support. France, China, Russia and Saudi Arabia have backed.
For the United Nations Security Council, the debate is more difficult. In Africa, we have 54 countries. We want two permanent seats with veto power. That is our position.
The current system was defined in 1946. It’s time we looked at the current global configuration. The world today cannot continue to function as it did in 1946. Nearly the entire continent of Africa, with the exception of Ethiopia, was then colonized. We have no freedom.
We are asking for comprehensive governance. Otherwise, the system will no longer be reliable. But those who must accept it are, first of all, the five permanent members who have the privilege of vetoing. It’s hard. But representation needs to be improved.
Mr. President, how do you think this might work? There will be a permanent seat on the Security Council —
Two seats!
Two seats. For example, are they given to Nigeria as Africa’s largest country?
We are not there yet. It is up to Africa, once having its seat, to determine the mode of representation. There are several theories. It makes no sense to give them to a particular country. We will not fight for anything, because the country will represent itself, not Africa. Then, among Africans, we can consider what is the best way to represent the interests of the continent. First, we will have seats, then we will discuss how to occupy them.
I believe that after your speech at the United Nations, President Biden said that he supported your call for a seat on the Security Council – I think he said one, not two.
He can say a seat. I say two seats. It is a negotiation. [Laughs]
How do you think the president and his government can best support Africa in a war that transcends boundaries?
I think the president has a desire to work with Africa. Clear. Once, he told me that if he was president, it would be largely because of the African-American vote. That’s what he has in his heart.
But we need more concrete things, and the United States as the most powerful nation in the world can stimulate this, if there is political will. They need to agree to invest a little more in the continent. Not aid, but investment. We do not ask for sponsorship. What we are asking is to be able to access the market and not have too much stress leading to increased prices of wheat, fertilizers, as we have experienced this year. This forces our states to subsidize, as we have suffered a lot from Covid and from the war in Ukraine.
What will success at the summit in Washington look like?
Success will be the United States and Africa implementing a specific program to ensure food security, make Africa self-sufficient through public-private investment funds, help modernize agriculture in Africa and infrastructure development: energy, roads, railways and irrigation. Sure, we’ll need some money, but first, there must be the will to work with Africans.
What can the United States offer Africa that other partners — like China, Russia or Turkey — cannot and vice versa?
For example, what China does that the West doesn’t do in Africa is — it’s one of the few countries that fund basic infrastructure. Roads, railways, major infrastructure. Others [Western] countries have been doing it for a long time, but after 30 years, they stopped and now focus on funding software, governance, defense, and gender. The same goes for education and health. Funding vaccines, health and education is a wonderful thing. But at the same time, Africa needs roads, railways and energy.
When it comes to Ukraine, do you think the world powers are asking African countries to take sides? And you yourself talked to Vladimir Putin; How do you think this war can end?
This war must end. For us Africans, that is the most important thing, not behind Russia or Ukraine — even if we have said that the borders of nations must be respected.
With President Zelensky [last week]I talked for a long time about [the initiative] Grains from Ukraine. We told him, ‘That’s a great thing. We will continue to work with you. But let’s talk, agree to a ceasefire, work for peace.’
In the end, saying Russia is guilty does not solve the problem. In addition to naming the perpetrators, the war must be stopped. Everyone is suffering today. We see all the consequences of this war on living standards, on the prices of hydrocarbons, oil, food. So stop it.
You are often criticized in Senegal for not confirming that you will not run for re-election as a presidential candidate in 2024. Did you hear those criticisms?
It’s normal for me to be criticized in my politics, not just in my work as president.
It is clear that today there is no legal argument [over whether or not he can run again]. Now, whether I become a candidate or not, that is my decision.
Have you decided?
When I decide, I will let the Senegalese know.
